After years of just a basic amp to speaker set up, I am looking to invest with a partner in a sound system in the range of $5-10k. We're looking to put together around a 3k-6kwatt system that brings the boom, doesn't leave out the mids+highs (so many systems seem to lack mids nowdays!), and is durable. The sound system will probably be moved around 5-12 times/mo, indoor and outdoor shows, so durability is a must!
Originally we were leaning towards a turbosound/qsc set up, but after hearing the TXD series aren't the most rugged speakers, we've began to lean towards EAW for the time being.
This is the current prototype model that we're possibly looking at buying (all gear is new, most prices from guitar center).
2x LA128z Dual 18-in Subwoofer 2000w 4oms
$1400 x 2 x 8% = $3025
2 x FR153z single 15" 3way 500w 8oms
$895 x 2 x 8% = $1935
dbx DriveRack PA Processor
$499.95 x 8% = $540
Speakon cable circa $250
QSC RMX 4050HD 2-Channel 4000w 4ohm mono bridged
$1300 x 8% = $1400
QSC RMX 2450 500w at 8oms
already own
Mackie 15" active monitors
$700 x 2 x 8% = $1510
Mackie 1202vlz pro 12 channel stereo mixer
$300 x 8%= $325
This current set up comes to right around $9000
Originally we were leaning towards a turbosound/qsc set up, but after hearing the TXD series aren't the most rugged speakers, we've began to lean towards EAW for the time being.
This is the current prototype model that we're possibly looking at buying (all gear is new, most prices from guitar center).
2x LA128z Dual 18-in Subwoofer 2000w 4oms
$1400 x 2 x 8% = $3025
2 x FR153z single 15" 3way 500w 8oms
$895 x 2 x 8% = $1935
dbx DriveRack PA Processor
$499.95 x 8% = $540
Speakon cable circa $250
QSC RMX 4050HD 2-Channel 4000w 4ohm mono bridged
$1300 x 8% = $1400
QSC RMX 2450 500w at 8oms
already own
Mackie 15" active monitors
$700 x 2 x 8% = $1510
Mackie 1202vlz pro 12 channel stereo mixer
$300 x 8%= $325
This current set up comes to right around $9000
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Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Wed, September 28, 2005 - 6:30 PMOh yah, both of these speakers are made by EAW which I didn't list above
2x EAW LA128z Dual 18-in Subwoofer 2000w 4oms
$1400 x 2 x 8% = $3025
2 x EAW FR153z single 15" 3way 500w 8oms
$895 x 2 x 8% = $1935 -
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Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Wed, September 28, 2005 - 7:31 PMYou might also check out Yorkville, very comparable to EAW's JF & LA lines. Not that the EAW system is a lemon, but something like this would have significantly more output capability for around the same price:
(2) U15B Tops (15"/5"/5"/5"/1") - Google Tom Danley.
(4) LS1208B (Hornloaded 18") - Similar to the EAW LA400
(2-4) E378B Monitors (12"/2") - Small. Heavy. Loud.
Some more thoughts. . .
The selected tops are designed for DJ playback for use with 1 per side, and are not designed for arraying. So if you want to increase the system later, you may be better off with another top box, one with a 60x40 dispersion pattern. The plus side is that the wave guide used on the FR153z has very low compression, which avoids sounding harsh even at high output, and works well in smaller rooms with the wider dispersion, but the tradeoff is reduced efficiency.
If you are going to be moving this around a lot, take a look at the QSC PLX 3402 amp. 21-lbs & 1,100wx2 @ 4ohms. Going with hornloaded subs saves you quite a bit of amplifier needs (105dB@1 watt vs 98dB) and is handy for those times when solid power isn't available.
The DBX Driverack PA - If possible, look at the 240 or better, the PA can't split the signal paths (for aux fed subs or monitor uses) and has an awful VERY loud turn on/off pop if you happen to accidentally loose power. Ashly also makes some very nice DSPs. Course they do cost more. Other then that, they work great!
Mackie makes a very nice little mixer, but so does Allen & Heath - the mixwiz might be worth checking out.
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Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Wed, September 28, 2005 - 7:44 PMThat's exactly why I've posted it...to get more input. I've been looking at some yorkville stuff as well. And yes.. I know who Tom Danley is... Mr Servodrive inventer ;) Thanks for the input! -
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Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Thu, September 29, 2005 - 6:00 AMTry the Crown CE series of amps instead of the QSCs. We origianally had QSCs but they weren't as rugged as the Crown. So far we've never had a problem with our Crown amps and we move them as often as you do. -
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Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Thu, September 29, 2005 - 6:01 AMWe also use a dbx DriveRack PA Processor and it has built in curves for the Crown series of amps. -
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Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Thu, September 29, 2005 - 9:47 AMI had the LA 218's and was very disapointed in them.
Eaw makes a decent subwoofer that is small. It is based on
A Meyer design. Called the SB250. It is 2 15" in a tiny cabinet. I bought them for corporate gigs . I can roll 2 in
on one dolly.
All of your speakers are designed about 10 years ago.
They are still big sellers and all, but you may want to check further into what is available.
There is a buzz building around the KV2 speakers www.kv2audio.com/es_25.html this is thier sub you cab toggle thru the site and find out more.
They make great cabinets and the sound is superior to everything but the NEXO and laciustics.
Which of course brings me to the NEXO and L'Acoustics. For $5000 more you get the latest in technological advances (not counting KV2, which _might_ be better)
And it is sound that you can live with. I mean really good sound that stays "headphone good " throughout the night.
If you are to invest please consider the best.
What do I have.
My speakers can kick the EAW speaker's butt's at half the price! Well maybe not half the price. Actually half again the price! they cost 1300$ they are the Mackie 1231's the best in show for consumer level speakers.
If you do not want a top notch professional system these are the best there is. They come amplified. They have more bass than the LA 218's and you just need to figure out a way to elevate them so the tweets are above the ear level of audience. And what better way to elevate a speaker than to put said speaker on top of as many sub's as you can afford??
Of course your average burner hippy performer just sets them down and goes with it and noone notices.
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Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Thu, September 29, 2005 - 9:52 AMI forgot to say that none other than Peavey is putting out a really decent speaker these days . Only one model I must say and I forgot which one.
But all the retail stores and net -stores will know which one when you ask.
People like me gaffer tape the logo and roll em out and stack 'em and noone asks.
you save a couple thousand if you are a good bargainer and you get street festival level sound . -
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Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Thu, September 29, 2005 - 9:59 AMI forgot.
Try the 1521's if you can afford them. They are blowing out the old model and you might get them down to 799$
These are the best speakers on a stick.
They can be compared to the Meyer or NEXO or KV2(kv2 designed them!) or L'Acoustics.
They arent as good but they are less than half the price.
They come amplified and sound super sweet 3 years down the road(How long I have had mine)
They have this huge horn that really widens the format of the highs. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Fri, September 30, 2005 - 10:20 AMI just found out that the Blue Cube in SF has a KV2 sound system, but last time I was there, I check the ones out upstairs and they were mackies??? I know Mackie and KV2 have a close relationship... but a Mackie is not a KV2 system, unless I am missing something here? Anyways, I have to say, I was not impressed with the setup they have there. I am a fiend for the bass, and I felt like my fiendish ways were not satisified the two times I've been there. I'm really starting to look at the Yorkville's, I've heard a lot of good things about them. -
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Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Fri, September 30, 2005 - 11:06 AMBeing a fellow fiend of bass, a few more points on the system I mentioned.
The LS1208B's are hornloaded, which has the huge benefit of efficiency, but at the cost of low frequency extension. The low frequency -3dB will shift with the number of boxes you use together (as the mouth gets larger). If you plan on always using them in a large block of 4, this isn't an issue as they should perform quite well down to 35-40hz. However if you want to use just one box, you may find the sub 50hz material lacking (or overwhelmed by the 70-80hz) unless you can corner load them.
That said, double 18" boxes such as the LS1004, EAW LA118, or Peavey QW218 do will most likely outperform most hornloaded subs in the 30-40 hz range. The Peavey Q-Wave 218 has indeed received rave reviews (once you remove the badging).
Now the ultimate would be a larger horn, such as those offered by Bassmaxx, Servodrive, EAW KF940, Danley sound, or the DIY LABsub. These bring a hefty price, size, and weight, and still require being used in blocks of 4 - but can offer massive output down below 30 hz.
So many choices!
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Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Fri, September 30, 2005 - 12:18 PMOh man, I have to say the Blue Cube sound system is a total disaster!
And it was the KV2 guys that started Terence down that road!
I think!
Anyway they put too small a speaker too high up for the intended pupose.
A visit to Blue Cube is a lesson in placement of speakers
Bad placement of spoeakers!
So Terrance then hauls in his strip club Mackies system,
and we are stuck with multiple "primary" sound sources.
The KV2 system is linked to a 8-16 channel system processor that is supposed to properly place in a "sound field" any signal source.
I suggest a visit just to find out one good way to throw away 100,000$ in sound equiptment (maybe just 75,000!)
So back to the discussion.
We will fight to the grave about speakers probably, but I will concede that yorkville has a sweet 12" self powered speaker.
For the money I am divided over the 1521 and the yorville.
You see in reality, (i am a bass fiend! too) I wont do dance music without a sub. So haveing a 15 on top is not the best choice sound wise. A good high powerted 12" might be better, and the yorkville has a "I can take it" attitude.
So I just priced the KV2 and the big horn loaded system is 13,000 perstack. That includes the amp/processor package.
Every sound guy I have heard has said they have to turn the system down. Of course on a beach at night (4:00am ,say) nobody is going to ask you to turn down, but on a street festival or to supplement a club system, gossip is that the sys op will make you de-throttle, in order to not out shine their gut less system.
I still question whether there is enough bass for me or the other scholarly gentle men on this list.
This from a couple other dance system contractors.
The Bassmax has a new sub that should keep them the best sub manufacturer in the world. Price/ over 3,000$
I strongly recommend looking at the Mackie 1231. It sounds good enough, better than any other consumer level gear. It has an amp built in, you just plug and play, it has some decent bass, but I would get more just cause. -
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Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Fri, September 30, 2005 - 2:43 PMHey BT what do you know about the Yorkville TX9S? Is the 1208 or 1004 better for the money, I figure it wouldn't hurt that much to spend a little extra!
Also.... down the road I definitely intend to invest in a much higher end sound system. Any thoughts on Martin Audio? -
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Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Fri, September 30, 2005 - 2:43 PMBy the way, THANKS to all of you who have contributed to this trhead! -
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Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Fri, September 30, 2005 - 3:56 PMThe TX9S is their tour grade sub. While I haven’t heard it, I have read that the differences are a flatter, more accurate response, higher quality construction, and flyable hardware - overall, less output at peak frequencies due to the smoother frequency response.
Four 1208's will outperform four 1004's at the same power input, but in smaller numbers the 1004 will have better sub 40hz frequency performance. For those without a power distro, and without the need for 20-35hz, a box such as the 1208's/LA400/T36 will give far more 50-80hz output per dollar spent.
You might also look at what is available to rent locally, as having matching boxes is handy for the occasional huge production.
There are two Martin sound companies.
www.martin-audio.com/
www.martin.com/productgro...ctgroup.asp
Martin Lighting/Mach sound out of Denmark and Martin Audio out of the UK. The Martin sound W8 stuff is excellent tour grade gear, the Mach stuff is not as widely used (at least that I've seen in the US) and caters to smaller systems.
Hope that helps!
Bt
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Re: Assembling a professional + affordable sound system - help!
Tue, May 15, 2007 - 5:29 PMI am by no means the final word in sound engineering, but looking at your shopping list, it seems a tragic shame that you are spending so much on everything else except a REAL mixer. A Mackie 1202VLZ? That is a joke! At the very least, get something with swept mid range eq, and at least 16 channels. And 4 aux sends if you want four indpependent mixes on stage. I'd recommend something like the Allen & Heath Mix Wiz 16:2(3) or a Soundcraft LIve 4 (if you want submixes) - just a thought..